Lets Talk About Buckshot

I’ve got 3 gauges, one is a 1978 era 30” full choke blued one & that’s my baby ….

Other 2 are home defense kind of guns, a Beretta 1301 & a ithaca 37 CHP gun

I’ve ran all kinds of buckshot thru them and keep coming back to Flite Control 8 rd 00, wanted to get # 1 buckshot but could never find it & Bonefrog always seems to have flite control OO

Federal seems to have dropped their 8 pellet load, so that leaves only Hornady making 8 peellet 00buck I believe, however I've never seen it, only the #4 varmint load.

12GA Federal Tactical 00BuckShot 8 Pellet with FliteControl Wad 2 3/4 (LE133 00)

$66 for 50 rds at bonefrog

It may still be in stock some places, but federal no longer makes it and no longer list it on their website. Of course with being in alaska, it's not sosimple to just mail order and stock up either.

No idea what it takes to ship ammo to Alaska🤷‍♂️ 

We are planning a drive across Canada & up to Alaska & thinking about getting a lever action 44mag to be Canada legal

Just asked a LE distributor guy I know and was told the 8 rd 12 gauge is on the law enforcement side & not on federal website and it’s back in full production 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I’ve got 3 gauges, one is a 1978 era 30” full choke blued one & that’s my baby ….

Other 2 are home defense kind of guns, a Beretta 1301 & a ithaca 37 CHP gun

I’ve ran all kinds of buckshot thru them and keep coming back to Flite Control 8 rd 00, wanted to get # 1 buckshot but could never find it & Bonefrog always seems to have flite control OO

Federal seems to have dropped their 8 pellet load, so that leaves only Hornady making 8 peellet 00buck I believe, however I've never seen it, only the #4 varmint load.

12GA Federal Tactical 00BuckShot 8 Pellet with FliteControl Wad 2 3/4 (LE133 00)

$66 for 50 rds at bonefrog

It may still be in stock some places, but federal no longer makes it and no longer list it on their website. Of course with being in alaska, it's not sosimple to just mail order and stock up either.

No idea what it takes to ship ammo to Alaska🤷‍♂️ 

We are planning a drive across Canada & up to Alaska & thinking about getting a lever action 44mag to be Canada legal

Just asked a LE distributor guy I know and was told the 8 rd 12 gauge is on the law enforcement side & not on federal website and it’s back in full production 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Interesting. My guy said it was out of production, but maybe that is old news.

I do love a good 44 mag carbine. My current favorite is a Smith and Wesson 1854.

Stretched it out to 25 yards and the federal is really starting to shine now. This is probably all I will do today since the wind is starting to pick up and I also have other things I need to get done today rather than just shoot guns. I'd like to try the flight control out at 50 yards, as well as try all loads from a full choked gun, and also from a overbored gun.

I also realized I needed to be marking the pelelt hits from individual rounds better to get a better idea of what was going on. These were fired at 25 yeards off hand just holding center of the paper. Blue tracer is 1st round and black is second.

Federal Flight Control


Fiocchi Exactra


Sellier & Bellot

Federal seems to have dropped their 8 pellet load, so that leaves only Hornady making 8 peellet 00buck I believe, however I've never seen it, only the #4 varmint load.

12GA Federal Tactical 00BuckShot 8 Pellet with FliteControl Wad 2 3/4 (LE133 00)

$66 for 50 rds at bonefrog

It may still be in stock some places, but federal no longer makes it and no longer list it on their website. Of course with being in alaska, it's not sosimple to just mail order and stock up either.

No idea what it takes to ship ammo to Alaska🤷‍♂️ 

We are planning a drive across Canada & up to Alaska & thinking about getting a lever action 44mag to be Canada legal

Just asked a LE distributor guy I know and was told the 8 rd 12 gauge is on the law enforcement side & not on federal website and it’s back in full production 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Interesting. My guy said it was out of production, but maybe that is old news.

I do love a good 44 mag carbine. My current favorite is a Smith and Wesson 1854.

The S&W stainless 44 is top of my wish list 

wanted to take the ferry to Alaska but it seems to fill up 6-8 months in advance and you can’t just roll up and hop on

I've never been much of a shotgun guy. Ive had a few over the years, and currently have 4 of them. I've often promoted them for home defense, But I've always used a pistol and a lever action myself (Current one is a 44 mag carbine)

Now I do have a Mosserg 590A1 as well as a Turknelli both kept loaded with 1oz low recoil slugs, but recently decided maybe I'd be better off with buckshot. I haven't messed with buckshot much in any of my current shotguns, so I decided to pattern some loads from the 590 and realized that my buckshot stash was pretty much depleted.

Now two things I do know about shotguns. This first one is something I've noticed across the board, but its especially noticeable with the 3.5" magnums, more velocity means more spread. And the second is something I never relly played with much, but I was told when I used to shoot 3 gun that 8 pellet buck will usually pattern better than 9 pellet. Now I know that some companies produced 8 pellet 00buck but I've never seen it here in Alaska. My load of choice was 2.75" 8 pellet 000buck as I felt like it hit harder and patterned better than 9 pellet 00buck. 8 pellets of 000 also weights more than 9 pellets of 00. I don't know what the percentage difference in mass per pellet is, but the 000 is about 20 grains heavier per pellet.

Now the problem - I can't find 000buck anywhere right now. I ended up buying a case each of cheap S&B 9 pellet 00, and Federal Flight Control Tactical 9 pellet both in 2.75" shells. Neither of these is a hot rod load, with the federal moving at an advertised 1145fps.

Im curious to see if the flight control wad will be enough to mitigate the 9th pellet flier. The cheap stuff doesnt look to have a shot cup, and is also not plated with anything. While it does not say so on the box, I do believe that the flight control is copper plated.

Will be interesting to see how much difference I get in pattern with these 2 loads

Yes. I’d like to know. My son is setting up a Mossberg 500 with a short ‘turkey’ barrel for home def. I’d like to know what you find out about 00 Buck. We’ll have to shoot some, but I’d like to know what you find as a starting point.

I've never been much of a shotgun guy. Ive had a few over the years, and currently have 4 of them. I've often promoted them for home defense, But I've always used a pistol and a lever action myself (Current one is a 44 mag carbine)

Now I do have a Mosserg 590A1 as well as a Turknelli both kept loaded with 1oz low recoil slugs, but recently decided maybe I'd be better off with buckshot. I haven't messed with buckshot much in any of my current shotguns, so I decided to pattern some loads from the 590 and realized that my buckshot stash was pretty much depleted.

Now two things I do know about shotguns. This first one is something I've noticed across the board, but its especially noticeable with the 3.5" magnums, more velocity means more spread. And the second is something I never relly played with much, but I was told when I used to shoot 3 gun that 8 pellet buck will usually pattern better than 9 pellet. Now I know that some companies produced 8 pellet 00buck but I've never seen it here in Alaska. My load of choice was 2.75" 8 pellet 000buck as I felt like it hit harder and patterned better than 9 pellet 00buck. 8 pellets of 000 also weights more than 9 pellets of 00. I don't know what the percentage difference in mass per pellet is, but the 000 is about 20 grains heavier per pellet.

Now the problem - I can't find 000buck anywhere right now. I ended up buying a case each of cheap S&B 9 pellet 00, and Federal Flight Control Tactical 9 pellet both in 2.75" shells. Neither of these is a hot rod load, with the federal moving at an advertised 1145fps.

Im curious to see if the flight control wad will be enough to mitigate the 9th pellet flier. The cheap stuff doesnt look to have a shot cup, and is also not plated with anything. While it does not say so on the box, I do believe that the flight control is copper plated.

Will be interesting to see how much difference I get in pattern with these 2 loads

Yes. I’d like to know. My son is setting up a Mossberg 500 with a short ‘turkey’ barrel for home def. I’d like to know what you find out about 00 Buck. We’ll have to shoot some, but I’d like to know what you find as a starting point.

The gold standard is 8 pellet Federal FliteControl LE13300

https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/products...-4-le13300

Now, I have never shot a human with buckshot but I have shot a truckload of deer with them and my results have been varied but the best I have found by far in killing power are #1 buck and #4 buck. They both have plenty of penetration and offer denser patterns than 00 or 000 buck. I can't tell you the number of deer I saw shot where the "magic bb" was what stopped them, a pellet to the spine puts them on the ground but not out every single time. Back in the day I used to shoot Activ nickel plated buckshot and that stuff was very hard and resisted deformation. A lot of the pellets ended up under the hide on the far side and could have been reloaded and shot again. The #1 was good to 40 yards and the #4 was better at shorter ranges and aimed at the neck.

My HD shotgun has #4 tungsten buckshot in it now. The way the house is set up anyone coming up the stairs will lose their head and there will be less overpenetration of the structure behind them. The larger sizes in tungsten penetrate like crazy and I wouldn't want to endanger the neighbors. And they aren't cheap, I wouldn't go shoot 3 gun matches with them.

Interesting… I have some #4 buck 3” loads that I don’t know what to do with them…

They were loaded for skybusting geese (a bazillion years ago when lead shot could be used for waterfowl over land). I never considered home def. as I was focused on 000 and 00.

Interesting… I have some #4 buck 3” loads that I don’t know what to do with them…

They were loaded for skybusting geese (a bazillion years ago when lead shot could be used for waterfowl over land). I never considered home def. as I was focused on 000 and 00.

I'm only repeating what I've read elsewhere, but #4 buck should have adequate penetration and there are convincing arguments that multiple small holes cause a quicker loss of blood pressure than a few larger pellets.
I believe olfart said that was standard issue in his department.

From Doc Garry R



Until recently, the 12 gauge shotgun has remained the universally accepted shoulder fired weapon for United States law enforcement general purpose use. While law enforcement 12 ga. shotguns are typically loaded with #00 Buckshot and offer outstanding incapacitation potential and increased hit potential against moving targets at close range (no more than 15 to 25 yard), the shotgun is not an ideal general purpose weapon due to its short effective range, imprecise accuracy, downrange hazard to bystanders, small ammunition capacity, slow reloading, and harsh recoil. Recognition of the shotgun’s significant limitations as a general purpose weapon have prompted many American law enforcement agencies to adopt the more versatile semi-automatic carbine for general purpose use.

Yet despite their limitations, shotguns are still found in the majority of patrol cars in the United States and still have a valid role for law enforcement use, especially in close quarters combat (CQB) and to deliver specialized munitions (breaching, chemical, less lethal impact and electronic). A basic shotgun weapon system is already in place for most departments and the 12 gauge shotgun is one of the most cost effective weapons to obtain and operate.

Law enforcement 12 ga. shotguns using buckshot of #1 or larger size offer greater close range physiological incapacitation potential than virtually any other commonly used shoulder fired weapon-- this can be a significant advantage during urban entry missions and high risk warrant service in closely confined settings. Should the need arise to stop fast moving targets at close range, like aggressive dogs that could not be deterred through less lethal alternatives, 12 gauge buckshot of #1 shot or larger is the optimal ammunition choice. Keep in mind that buckshot, especially frangible types such as Hevishot, have less ricochet risk than shotgun slugs, as well as handgun and rifle projectiles when fired at objects close to the ground, such as charging dogs. In congested urban settings, buckshot is less likely to pose as high a downrange hazard as slugs in the event a missed shot exits a structure wall. Birdshot offers inadequate penetration and intermediate barrier capability and has no place for LE use.

On the other hand, slugs offer several advantages in other settings, including greater range when in open areas, more precise accuracy and control of projectiles, and in more rural settings if larger animals like cattle are critically injured and need to be rapidly euthanized in the field, shotgun slugs are an optimal choice. Shotguns loaded with good quality deep penetrating slugs like Brenneke or the Federal Truball Deep Penetrator (PB127 DPRS) are able to defeat intermediate barriers better than handguns, SMG’s, handgun caliber carbines, & . 223/5.56mm carbines--this particularly includes defeating laminated automobile and transit vehicle windshields. They are also the best option for defense against large U.S. predators like brown bears.


Brenneke THD slug through 2 x 20 ga steel per FBI protocol

The new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/...ils/slug.aspx?id=902) penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. Accuracy is excellent out to at least 100 yds. It is the first slug to be prove an alternative to the Brenneke.


Brenneke Tactical Home Defense


Brenneke Classic Magnum

Note that while traditional Foster type slugs can be very effective against unobstructed soft targets, they tend to break apart and often fail to offer adequate penetration against intermediate barriers and tougher animals. Since slugs are typically selected with the goal of successfully penetrating something--often times intermediate barriers or large dangerous animals, Foster type slugs are NOT generally the best option for LE use.

The new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrate in the 14-18 inch range. Below are patterning shots at 7 and 25 yards fired out of a generic 18" 870P:



Through an automobile windshield at 3 meters, 2 badly deformed pellets were noted at 5", 3 pellets were at 8-9", while the remaining 10 pellets were found at 12.5-15"--not bad for a buckshot load. Keep in mind that slugs are the preferred option when engaging threats inside vehicles.

In bare gel when shot from 3 meters, we again saw penetration of all the pellets from 14-18", as noted in the photo below: