(07-18-2023, 01:35 PM)specops56 Wrote: Paul is one of the guys I sub to. I like the meat target. And you gotta love his delivery since he is, what you call, a professional. I've also seen gel tests showing good penetration and damage. I just wish I could find some actual SD shooting performance data.

Terry

(07-18-2023, 12:58 PM)SimpleJack Wrote: I don't know who P&S is, but there is plenty of evidence available online that shows that mini slugs and buckshot are suitable for close range self defense. I wouldn't use birdshot for SD, mini shell or otherwise.

Here are two Paul Harrell videos where he tests Aguila Minishells. Note the results of the meat target.  Seems to be a lot more than just blood.





I use mini shells in my KS7 because it sucks to shoot with anything else.  Same for my Shockwave.  Both will get the job done with minis.

(07-17-2023, 02:33 PM)specops56 Wrote:

(07-17-2023, 01:49 PM)Rampy Wrote:

(07-17-2023, 09:25 AM)specops56 Wrote:

(07-16-2023, 06:51 PM)Rampy Wrote: The small mini shotgun shells do absolutely nothing to a human other than some blood, they are not powerful enough to penetrate clothing and flesh/blood/fat to do any damage

How do you know that? Do you have any real world data on SD shootings with them? I’m not being snarky. In all the gel tests I’ve seen they seem to have good penetration and the slug is still a big chunk of lead. I’m always in search of real world data on SD rounds and how they’ve actually performed against actual bad guys. I have it loaded with the same reduced recoil 00 that’s in my other SD shotgun. I plan to test the minis for reliable feeding and POI before I consider loading them.
Terry
Yes, P&S Facebook groups have some of the very few actual real deal shotgun instructors & they all say to stay away from the mini shotgun shells. 
P&S has tons of videos also on YouTube 
I’ve still got about 200 mini shotgun shells left (started with 1k)and while they are fun and cute, everything I shot them in had a malfunction at one time or another and I’ll never trust them in a life safety role 

That's fine but is it based on any real life SD shooting data against actual human beings or is it just their expert opinion? Don't get me wrong. I am not enamored of or sold on the mini shells. I think it's an interesting concept. But, whenever possible, I base my ammo choices on real SD shooting data rather than gel or opinions.
When that data is not available, I listen to opinions, look at gel tests, perform my own tests and then make my choice. If you have any real world LE data on shootings with these shells I would be eternally grateful if you could share it with me. Thanks!
Terry
I purchased my Ithaca 37 from a very reputable shotgun instructor and asked him about mini shells and he laughed & said to not waste my time on them & try low recoil Federal buckshot and slugs if ya can find them 
im in southern Missouri and on my phone with hit or miss internet 

this is a good link about mini shells 

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/are-mini-shotgun-shells-viable-for-self-defense/?mibextid=Zxz2cZ


another good article with links to more gauge info 


https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/dispelling-myths-12ga-shotgun/?utm_campaign=meetedgar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=meetedgar.com&fbclid=IwAR1Xa6IfwuOZQ07Zh_n8EIILDQ-gCNabI7MHgW-pUk2_eUQejisDk-R8nfo_aem_AVE08Y4yFdSlcoAG7PAacYhBVl8DjZ_EZMdlrNlorpYz2WdkH9hKPRQsYmHniyK42Ro&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

(07-20-2023, 02:06 PM)specops56 Wrote: I got the Aguilas for practice. I got the Federal Shorty 1oz slugs for serious use if that's the way I decide to go. The Federal Shorty is still a 1 ounce chunk of lead traveling at around 1200fps. That, by the way, is the same slug and advertised velocity as their 2.75 inch shell. How is that inadequate?

Terry