5 Year Law Enforcement Report on Red Dots on Handguns

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(01-28-2025, 02:48 AM)Rampy Wrote:
(01-27-2025, 11:21 AM)RFPews Wrote: I can’t imagine the study is all that beneficial given the minuscule numbers of cops using dots. Just not that many do, yet.

Dots to me are a benefit, but they aren’t the end all be all. No piece of equipment fills that pipe dream role. Not to mention if you have bad fundamentals the dots just amplify that.


Dots have been extremely beneficial in law enforcement circles from what I’ve seen and been told 

Yes fundamentals are important but under stress bad fundamentals with a dot have greater chances of hits vs iron sights 

quality instruction in the proper way to use a dot is incredibly important 

More and more cops are using dots, some very large departments are phasing them in on all duty guns…….

In 10ish years all cops will have dots on except the old grandfathers in guys
Not arguing against them. I love dots. I use them on anything I carry. Everyone should use dots!

Yes more are using, but still way more that don’t at this point. But yes in 10 years a vast majority will I’d imagine. Except at places where they don’t issue guns. Non gun nerd cops are notoriously cheap. 

Agreed on the instructions. I’ve gone to two Sig based classes and instructor level with Sage Dynamics. I had already adjusted myself to dots without but still learned a ton at the classes. The dots can give the shooter more feedback on what they’re doing than another set of eyes if they pay attention.
(01-31-2025, 01:10 AM)RFPews Wrote:
(01-28-2025, 02:48 AM)Rampy Wrote:
(01-27-2025, 11:21 AM)RFPews Wrote: I can’t imagine the study is all that beneficial given the minuscule numbers of cops using dots. Just not that many do, yet.

Dots to me are a benefit, but they aren’t the end all be all. No piece of equipment fills that pipe dream role. Not to mention if you have bad fundamentals the dots just amplify that.


Dots have been extremely beneficial in law enforcement circles from what I’ve seen and been told 

Yes fundamentals are important but under stress bad fundamentals with a dot have greater chances of hits vs iron sights 

quality instruction in the proper way to use a dot is incredibly important 

More and more cops are using dots, some very large departments are phasing them in on all duty guns…….

In 10ish years all cops will have dots on except the old grandfathers in guys
Not arguing against them. I love dots. I use them on anything I carry. Everyone should use dots!

Yes more are using, but still way more that don’t at this point. But yes in 10 years a vast majority will I’d imagine. Except at places where they don’t issue guns. Non gun nerd cops are notoriously cheap. 

Agreed on the instructions. I’ve gone to two Sig based classes and instructor level with Sage Dynamics. I had already adjusted myself to dots without but still learned a ton at the classes. The dots can give the shooter more feedback on what they’re doing than another set of eyes if they pay attention.


You are my hero, I’d love to take a Sage Dynamics dot class
You need better heroes! 😂

Cowan is a great instructor. I’ve gone to a couple of his classes. Red dot instructor and low light instructor. Not only does he completely deep dive on the science of it all but he is excellent at conveying the points. But one of my favorite things about him, he doesn’t shit talk other instructors and he actively encourages you to go to other classes. Which for some instructors is a bit difficult to do that.

One of my clubs is supposed to bring in Jedlinski and/or Gelhaus this year. Plan to hit either or both. Of the two I’d rather go to Jedlinski. I don’t agree with everything he says but I’ve met him once and he seems laid back and obviously has information to offer.
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(02-01-2025, 07:25 AM)RFPews Wrote: You need better heroes! 😂

Cowan is a great instructor. I’ve gone to a couple of his classes. Red dot instructor and low light instructor. Not only does he completely deep dive on the science of it all but he is excellent at conveying the points. But one of my favorite things about him, he doesn’t shit talk other instructors and he actively encourages you to go to other classes. Which for some instructors is a bit difficult to do that.

One of my clubs is supposed to bring in Jedlinski and/or Gelhaus this year. Plan to hit either or both. Of the two I’d rather go to Jedlinski. I don’t agree with everything he says but I’ve met him once and he seems laid back and obviously has information to offer.


I won’t cross the street to piss in Jedlinski’s mouth if it’s on fire 

Some years back when he was just getting started & following several instructors around like a little puppy his wife the fitness freak said something about fat veterans as a couple made statements how he has zero experience of any kind & it went downhill from there to the point he was threatening a disabled veteran and saying he was going to kick the shit out of him cuz he’s a BJJ master and on and on….

I forgot most of it, it was on P&S and social media somewhere but it left a really bad taste in my mouth…

Gelhaus is a really good instructor from what I’ve been told 

Was scheduled for a Yeti class but it was canceled & drool at the thought of a No Fail class buy my skills have deteriorated after 2 strokes
(01-29-2025, 11:31 PM)Rampy Wrote:
(01-29-2025, 02:33 PM)hkriflenut_aka_sasquatch Wrote: *snip*


Never heard of the Echelon before, off to google


As far as a striker gun goes, its above average based on my limited experience with it so far. The pros it has going for it:

Better ergonomics than Glock
Better factory grip texture than most
Built in gas pedals, even if they're barely there
Terrific slide cuts that are super grippy and natural, without being over-done like the PDP or original APX. I Especially like how the slide tapers in slightly before the chamber, so if you're doing an overhand rack from the front of the gun (like when you're unloading the gun or doing a chamber check before going on duty) its just easy.
Mags load fairly easy to capacity without the need to use a LULA or other loader tool
Good factory irons that cowitness with most optics - my sample came with a tritium insert on the front sight which is OK, not a necessity for me.
Optics mounting system that doesn't require plates, except for ACRO footprint sights
Trigger on my sample is very much like my Glock 34 with Apex trigger installed. Its about 4.5lbs with a crisp break. Its a factory flat faced trigger. Its not quite as nice as a factory Walther PDP trigger, but its head and shoulders better than any factory Glock trigger. 

Its no Staccato, but I'm not rolling in Staccato money right now.

I'd made the jump back to a Beretta for my armed security monkey work, but decided to get the Echelon to use going through the police academy (its bring your own gun) since the lead firearms instructor said we can use our dots after he confirms we can shoot with irons. Finding sights I like that would let me mount a dot on the Beretta that I like is proving to be challenging. Basically the only tall sights I've found are Beretta factory 3 dot irons, which require being milled to work with a D-Lah Designs plate (the best option right now for the modern 92's aside from having Langdon mill your slide)
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(02-01-2025, 06:19 PM)hkriflenut_aka_sasquatch Wrote:
(01-29-2025, 11:31 PM)Rampy Wrote:
(01-29-2025, 02:33 PM)hkriflenut_aka_sasquatch Wrote: *snip*


Never heard of the Echelon before, off to google


As far as a striker gun goes, its above average based on my limited experience with it so far. The pros it has going for it:

Better ergonomics than Glock
Better factory grip texture than most
Built in gas pedals, even if they're barely there
Terrific slide cuts that are super grippy and natural, without being over-done like the PDP or original APX. I Especially like how the slide tapers in slightly before the chamber, so if you're doing an overhand rack from the front of the gun (like when you're unloading the gun or doing a chamber check before going on duty) its just easy.
Mags load fairly easy to capacity without the need to use a LULA or other loader tool
Good factory irons that cowitness with most optics - my sample came with a tritium insert on the front sight which is OK, not a necessity for me.
Optics mounting system that doesn't require plates, except for ACRO footprint sights
Trigger on my sample is very much like my Glock 34 with Apex trigger installed. Its about 4.5lbs with a crisp break. Its a factory flat faced trigger. Its not quite as nice as a factory Walther PDP trigger, but its head and shoulders better than any factory Glock trigger. 

Its no Staccato, but I'm not rolling in Staccato money right now.

I'd made the jump back to a Beretta for my armed security monkey work, but decided to get the Echelon to use going through the police academy (its bring your own gun) since the lead firearms instructor said we can use our dots after he confirms we can shoot with irons. Finding sights I like that would let me mount a dot on the Beretta that I like is proving to be challenging. Basically the only tall sights I've found are Beretta factory 3 dot irons, which require being milled to work with a D-Lah Designs plate (the best option right now for the modern 92's aside from having Langdon mill your slide)

Sounds very intriguing, nobody in town has one in stock & I even got a WTF look from one gun counter guy 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Will see if any gunshop we frequent in Colorado has one……

what’s up with this gas pedal fad?? Seeing all kinds of people looking for CCW holster that hit them, some are collapsible so they “fit” your current holster 

I asked and was told they are all the rage in shooting circles and help you shoot faster and they look good on the gram 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

staccato has 2 new pistols for law enforcement that combined striker fired and single action, low mounted red dot, no plate needed for dot  & accept Glock magazines directed at departments (apparently this is a huge thing) that mandate all officers have pistols that accept Glock magazines & somewhere between 75-78% of all law enforcement departments use Glock pistols….

They also revamped the “hero” program giving LEO’s $800 off the new pistols & more (have not looked into it) 

I really like Beretta’s but the lack of a high quality dot mounting solution is problematic 

Could you have one milled for a specific dot footprint? My 1st dot had to have the G19 slide milled for the RMR as no other option existed
This is the first time I've heard of a pistol gas pedal so I looked it up and watched a video. I really like the concept.
(02-01-2025, 07:45 PM)tommag Wrote: This is the first time I've heard of a pistol gas pedal so I looked it up and watched a video. I really like the concept.

I’m struggling with the idea, can see it on competition gun 

but is it safe/suitable on a carry gun??

Is it a crutch for poor shooters???


I don’t know enough about them but I know since my stroke the left grip sucks and hard to maintain a constant grip, wonder if a gas pedal would help
Shame about Jedlinski. But assholes come in all flavors.


Gas pedals help but they hamper your holster selection. I think even the new ones that fold cause holster issues. Probably juice isn’t worth the squeeze situation as far as a defensive pistol goes.
I think they would help for those of us that have strength issues. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to put one on my lc9s which is my favorite pocket pistol. With no rail and the function of my takedown pin it isn't an option.
On the bright side, it motivated me to examine it. Hoo boy, it was overdue for cleaning! At least I got that taken care of tonight. Even in a pocket holster it gets a lot of lint in it.
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